00:00:00.200 - 00:00:23.230

view with Harris? We'd for the Sanford University oral history program by Preston. We'd at 32 69 monte, D'or drive Birmingham Alabama on this date? November 10, Okay. What I need to get is your feelings towards Sanford when it was Howard on camp on the old campus.

00:00:23.230 - 00:00:43.080

I need to find out what it was like on the old campus. Such as um what was your first impressions of of the old campus? How how did you get interested in going to Sanford? My cousin went to Sanford and recommended it. What did he say

00:00:43.080 - 00:01:04.900

to influence? Well there wasn't a whole lot of choice either going into pharmacy. You either went to Auburn. We went to Sam Howard and since Howard was here at home. That's why I went to Howard. How are your pharmacy classes? How were they? Mhm. What were

00:01:04.900 - 00:01:28.570

they like? What do you have to do? Like any other classes? Just go in and listen and study and just can't get out of it. Not necessarily any harder than any other. It's different. All planned out for you though. I didn't have too many electives at

00:01:28.570 - 00:01:50.930

that time. Did they have them all pretty much lined out like they do today. Not today. I have more electives more so they're going to hear more now. You take more social studies type. How many years you have to go? It takes five years now. How

00:01:50.930 - 00:02:22.700

many did it take when you went to? They've increased that in the last few years. What kind of classes did you have to take? Well the first Year, two more or less general classes? Chemistry english, chemistry Again? Several chemistry taxes, man. My so called elected was

00:02:22.710 - 00:02:57.010

pe that's what it was several times. Not all allowed. That's basically what the classes were. No bringing up. PE you were on the track team. Yeah. Just my first year. What year was 56, started, 56, track tank during track season. So I had to drop out

00:02:57.010 - 00:03:25.510

of that to go to work. Couldn't keep up. Not much. Were you ever on, did you ever win anything? Why? Because of work takes a lot of it. Who's your coach? Coach? Foot howard? He's not there anymore. He's been gone for a long time. He went

00:03:25.510 - 00:03:47.630

into pharmacy school now. Center for you're on the track team at the Eastlake campus. But when you got to the howard, I mean to the new campus you weren't on track to. And that's when I had to start working Saturdays and that's when I was attracted

00:03:47.640 - 00:04:24.290

to where they were on Saturdays. Hmm. Um, On the East Lake campus. What buildings were there? Um, Not many. The administration building and an administration had math classes. Oh, some english class is the best. I can remember. Several others. And you had the chemistry building basically.

00:04:24.290 - 00:04:56.850

It's just chemistry and maybe physics was there and some biology. I wish you had the men's and women's dormitories. Which mostly were the old army if it was army or navy barracks? Way back across the football field? Oh, were there many navies or army personnel is

00:04:56.850 - 00:05:16.120

still there? Oh no, they've been gone a long time. That was World War Two supposes when they built those. I'm not sure that that's what I understand it was done. So the dorms were just used for students at that time. I mean non military personnel. Oh

00:05:16.120 - 00:05:46.610

yeah, just students using them. Like the women's dorm or just the men's dorm back there in the barracks. Do they have a student center? Not really. Not really. Just cafeteria. Just that area best. I remember no places for or those type of games that may have

00:05:46.610 - 00:06:10.550

been, but I don't remember. Oh, most of people seem to go down to the grocery store on the corner. Can you remember the name of it now? But that was the big hangout. But they must have had to have some pool or ping pong or something

00:06:10.550 - 00:06:35.190

somewhere. I just need to get to that. Did you live in any dorm rooms at home? Just went back and forth every day. Um He said that you were on track team. Were you on any of the football teams or anything like that? Any involved in

00:06:35.190 - 00:07:00.170

any other sport activities? They didn't at that time. They discouraged all pharmacy students from participating. They felt the workload was too heavy. Does that mean you couldn't or just encourage not to discouraged. I mean you couldn't, but it did take a lot of time because your

00:07:00.170 - 00:07:23.720

labs were so like most of your labs were going until sometimes four and five o'clock at night. How long did the last last four or 5:00? I mean how many hours? 2-4 hours usually had several away and football practice would start at 3:00 or earlier. And

00:07:24.940 - 00:07:46.330

it just wasn't a whole lot of ways that you could get all your classes in and getting football practice too. What was the football team like? Mhm. My first year there, They may have won one. I don't remember what the outcome was. It was pretty bad.

00:07:47.090 - 00:08:12.530

But then the second year, so when bobby Bowden came from Georgia, he brought travel. Good players with him recruited a few and I don't know what won lost records were. But Howard one sometime he came a whole lot of games they won most of the games

00:08:12.530 - 00:08:39.420

every season. You might lose one or two, maybe three. I don't remember now. They had some good teams after that. Until he had to leave, went to florida football never was all that big Sanford when I was there. Anyway, there were a few hours to enjoy

00:08:39.420 - 00:09:04.350

going to the game bobby Bowden. Come on. He started on the old campus or the new, pretty sure it was a new campus when he came. What do you remember what year? Well the new campus would Have opened for the fall of 57. That's when we

00:09:04.360 - 00:09:25.360

moved over there. I don't know if they had any summer classes or not before that I don't think so. Everything moved over in the fall. Did you know bobby bowden players who brought pretty well. I didn't know um because the players he brought came from Georgia.

00:09:25.370 - 00:09:47.260

They were, he was at a junior college there and he brought some players from there with him. Good ones. I think he recruited two mothers from there too. And then I had some good Birmingham area players. It takes a coach that's interested in it a little

00:09:47.260 - 00:10:14.320

back into get something done. How did you handle your first registration when you were freshmen? What would procedures say? It's long. I don't remember all the details of registration except that it took quite a while to do it. Oh seemed like we had, you have to

00:10:14.330 - 00:10:35.700

pick out the classes you wanted and go to that particular class and all right, see if it was filled up. If it wasn't, you could get it, you didn't have to pull cards or not. That I remember we pull cards cards started later and in fact,

00:10:35.700 - 00:10:55.940

I'm not sure whether we had cards at all before I finished. And I think it's just do you go to that Professor's table and raised her if it was open with the computer card system didn't start till a bit later. So because of this, I would

00:10:55.940 - 00:11:17.030

assume that there wasn't all that many students there to not have to have a card system. Do you know Like the total counting their night divisions and always around 2000 And maybe 1500 on campus at the most. I don't know if it was quite that many

00:11:17.030 - 00:11:39.170

or not. This is the year 1956 56 78 all around in there. It didn't grow all that much. It was growing some, especially after moved over to the new campus. Nothing like it is. Now, what did you have any close relationships with some of the professors?

00:11:40.080 - 00:11:59.540

Was there something you didn't like at all? Something like the whole lot? That's something like the whole lot real good people dr winter I guess is one of the favorites. I'm not sure it was a good teacher. Everybody was a good person to help if you

00:11:59.540 - 00:12:30.140

needed something or had a problem. What class was, he talked in pharmacy classes mostly. Chemistry, having just despised no understand. You had some Trouble with one professor who had something against passing students. Oh, I never did have him unfortunately. But this was over the old campus.

00:12:30.150 - 00:12:58.610

He was in the chemistry department and he had been failing Big%ages 2, 3 years. Some of the students I knew were A and B students. There's no way they could have made efforts in a class like that. But today and finally the they let him go get

00:12:58.610 - 00:13:23.020

rid of him somewhere. Another, I don't know how and what they had to do to get him out Anybody. Any teacher that's failing 70-80 or 85% of the class is something wrong with the teacher not the class, remember his name Remember people complaining was something said,

00:13:25.130 - 00:13:46.520

they said a lot of things, not very nice things after all. They were paying good money to take a class from him and then for him to give him a grade that they didn't make. Oh he did get kicked out. There's no room for teachers like

00:13:46.520 - 00:14:08.060

that. How much was tuition fees? How much per hour? Oh it was real expensive then $15 an hour when I started and then when I finished it Still about 15. I don't know if it had gone up or not. Might have gone up a little bit

00:14:09.370 - 00:14:38.340

what you could pay a little bit of it down and the rest of it in three monthly payments. No interest or anything in school that's long gone now. Were you involved in any fraternities or clubs? Just professional fraternity, phi Delta kind. Which is a pharmacy fraternity.

00:14:39.000 - 00:14:59.530

It's a service fraternity? Not related at all. No not really a P. O. Or not related to any other organization at all. Complete separate division of its own. Was it just kind of an honorary thing. Did you have meetings? No it was an honorary, this was

00:14:59.670 - 00:15:31.670

any pharmacy student could join. Um Because we had weekly meetings. Mostly for service projects, which is, I'll see one. one of the first times we gave polio shines to the majority of the students on campus and the professors And then she had to have three album

00:15:31.670 - 00:15:49.520

at the time. So we gave the one shot and then I've forgotten the time interval now. But two months, three months for some period of time later than we gave the second shot. And then six or eight months later or maybe the next year. Then everybody

00:15:49.520 - 00:16:20.350

got the third one. And then uh, about that time they came out with the oral polio vaccine. So we had that again and we gave the oral vaccine to most of the students because it gave additional protection. How much better was that? More than just one,

00:16:21.560 - 00:16:49.220

one kind of oh, that's you could get it more than one way and you could get it by breathing. But another way that the vaccine that you took by injection didn't cover was an intestinal form and the one you took by mouth protected against that form

00:16:49.220 - 00:17:12.440

of polio virus too. So everybody's pretty well covered students forced to take this. No, they didn't, all of them didn't take it. That's why I said the majority. But everybody wanted, I think we charged them 50 cents, which was just about what it cost if that

00:17:12.440 - 00:17:34.140

much. But walker drug company furnished all the vaccine for us at their cost. So 50 cents didn't stop anybody, but they just, if they wanted fine if they didn't they didn't have to, a lot of people didn't want the shots. So. But uh I think we

00:17:34.140 - 00:17:53.370

had more people taking the shots and we did taking the oil vaccine because when we had the injections, that's probably always pretty bad then. But by the time the oil vaccine came out it had died down a whole lot because it had just stopped it. Was

00:17:53.370 - 00:18:12.770

there anybody on campus that ever got polio? Not that I know of, but I'm sure that not from what we gave them, but I'm sure there were people that had had polio that were on campus. You handle blood drives too, didn't you? Um No, we never

00:18:12.770 - 00:18:41.890

did sponsor blood drive that I can remember. Seems like the student council or a P. O. Or somebody at those times as one of their regular projects but we didn't get in on that. Right. How was the The student spirit on the campus on the one

00:18:41.890 - 00:19:06.940

in East Lake compared to the one in his present location? Probably a little different. The students on the campus were older. Oh a lot of them had been in the korean war and we're just getting back and out of the army. So that put them several

00:19:06.940 - 00:19:28.210

years older than the usual college age students. A lot of them were still holdovers from Being in the service in World War II and just coming around getting into college after finishing 15 or 20 years in the service. Um, average age at least in the pharmacy

00:19:29.240 - 00:19:55.750

department was probably 27, 28, 29, which is pretty old for college students. And so the, oh, I guess you might, the spirit probably was there, but it was a little more calm than it would be with the younger ones because most of them were married, had

00:19:55.750 - 00:20:18.270

Children a little bit more settled down and free to run around as much though there was still a lot of them that could, most of them were, but it's got onto the new campus and a lot of those people graduated what's the age dropped down. There

00:20:18.270 - 00:20:45.180

were younger people on average, the spirit was fine. A lot of uh, good organizations. The sports program was good, not just playing football with other colleges, but the intramural sports one fraternity against another and there's always games going on Most every day. You find two or

00:20:45.180 - 00:21:07.700

3 down football field somewhere playing some kind of One fraternity playing another one organization. Are there any bad feelings going to a new campus? None that I know of. Everybody was glad to get to the new campus as far as I can tell. New campus was.

00:21:09.560 - 00:21:33.810

You gotta know what the old campus was like. I guess the building of course were real old. The wood floors squeaked as you walked across. Ah the boards were worn. You could tell where they had worn thinner and they were hot. Only a few places had

00:21:33.810 - 00:21:51.820

air conditioning on the old campus. Mostly some of the officers but the new campus was completely air conditioned. All brand new. Real nice, extra clean, plenty of room. Watch your brain even though there were only a few buildings completed at the time. But for students we

00:21:51.820 - 00:22:13.280

had that was planning what buildings were there on the new campus when you get there. They had finished the pharmacy building which is a single tall now. And they had I finished all or almost finished the administration. I can't remember just for sure about that but

00:22:13.280 - 00:22:34.320

I think it was finished and they had they out one of the women's dormitories finished. I think they had one of the men's dorms finished up and we're getting ready to start work on the the library or may have already had some of the foundations and

00:22:34.320 - 00:22:56.700

all down. I don't remember just how far along they were on the end but it was a while before they finished it and it was a cafeteria. Also the student activity building. Best I remember that was about all of them. Football stadium wasn't finished. They were

00:22:56.710 - 00:23:29.680

working on the football field at the time. Germination one finished writing and then they finished the biology building after a year or so. Don't remember just waiting on that. That was about it as far as I can remember until I finished. There wasn't a whole lot

00:23:29.680 - 00:23:56.370

of buildings but they were big buildings as compared to the east campus and a lot more room. Was the chapel built at that time where you have a chapel in the library. Um I believe it's up on the second floor. Also had where they had plays

00:23:56.370 - 00:24:17.120

and other drama presentations. I think that was on the second floor. But I don't remember for sure. I thought you said that the library hadn't been built at that time or they just put down the foundation. Well they were starting some of it. I don't remember

00:24:17.130 - 00:24:44.110

just watch stage of completion. It was in uh they must have had must have some of it finished or we we couldn't have chapel there. I just don't remember how much but it wasn't completed library anyway at the time but they were working. I really don't

00:24:44.110 - 00:25:07.050

remember just when how is the procedure of chapel run? Um All students were required to attend. I think you could miss two or 3 semester or two or 3 a year. But other than that you were supposed to be there. I don't know, it usually was

00:25:07.050 - 00:25:42.760

about 45 minutes long. And they uh we have different types of program. Um very salome just a preacher too. Like you have on a sunday morning more of a um information type programming like at a convention or something. Sometimes they were really interesting and sometimes they

00:25:42.770 - 00:26:01.050

could come close to putting you to sleep just like any other but you were required to be there anyway. I think there were some exceptions. If there were reason if somebody worked or something. I don't think they had to go if they had to leave campus

00:26:01.050 - 00:26:21.490

and go to work or had a good reason. They didn't excuse too many people. There were two or 3 that didn't graduate one year because they didn't go. They missed her one or 2 times too many. They were trying to crack down on it. I would

00:26:21.490 - 00:26:42.820

imagine that got everybody's attention. So those that didn't graduate, they go to a whole another semester without taking any classes, but just going to convo I really don't know what they did. Uh No idea what kind of punishment they had hang out for that. They probably

00:26:42.820 - 00:27:00.900

had to come for that. But I don't think they would have had to come for classes if they already had all their hours or they may have given them something else. They had to do in places. No, they didn't graduate. How often did you have chapel?

00:27:01.000 - 00:27:33.050

What days? Weeks? Just once away. I don't remember when it was the same time. Every week. Just once a week. I don't remember. I think so at that time was set aside just for that. Nobody else had anything period. No excuses for anything that way. You

00:27:33.050 - 00:28:00.890

couldn't say I've got a class, you didn't have a class because there were no classes At about 10:00 or 9:30 or something like that in the morning. What fraternities or clubs on campus from the old campus? About the same as they are now. Um, I don't

00:28:00.890 - 00:28:24.310

know how many there now. I didn't know how many then. I didn't know there was a lot of them. What were some of the prominent, probably not like they are now pikes. Um, you're talking about the great fraternities are all fraternities. Mm hmm. Well, the A.

00:28:24.310 - 00:29:09.610

P. O. Was real active and I don't remember any of the others being outstanding for us. Except of course for Delta. What kind of kind of sports programs do you have besides football and track? I had a baseball team had women's softball team. Volleyball, tennis, tennis

00:29:09.610 - 00:29:41.230

was real big on the old campus and new campus. I've got some pretty good teams in tennis. What was the ratio between the men and women on campus? Since you mentioned women's volleyball team? I don't know exactly what it was. It seemed to be About 5050

00:29:41.720 - 00:30:13.630

might have been a lot different, but I never noticed it as being, Uh, a whole lot more of one or the other. That's pretty close, many marriages. Um, a few pretty regular, but most of them are after they finish school. So I'm during school, uh, you

00:30:13.630 - 00:30:43.590

know what the spiritual environment was? Was it pretty moral high school compared to some of the secular schools considering it was baptist college. Yeah, I think it was, religion was never really emphasized all that much uh, on the campus, like some of the schools you see

00:30:43.590 - 00:31:13.480

today with like, oil roberts, liberty bible college and all this with the religious theme is probably the center of the college, which may be as it should be, but at Howard Sanford, it seemed to have been a good education with in a religious college. Ah there

00:31:13.480 - 00:31:43.230

was no um they didn't allow drinking and drinking this on campus. Of course, though, it still happens sometimes be hard to say it was a real dynamic church school, such as some of them that are available today. Were there many ministers students, a lot of them,

00:31:44.600 - 00:32:02.700

there were a lot of them who were genuine uh ministerial students. There were a lot of them who were ministerial students only because they got half tuition or maybe less. Um quite a few of those that I knew of. And then in fact turned out to

00:32:02.710 - 00:32:31.780

be the truth, they didn't go into the ministry, they didn't intend to and there's probably some of that over there now too. But there was unbelievable number of ministerial students, seems like half the campus Mr Powell here, since this was a christian oriented school. What were

00:32:31.780 - 00:33:01.780

the feelings towards minorities, such as blacks and minorities, where there were no minorities on campus. I don't remember anybody. There may have been somebody from some other country on exchange basis, but I don't remember any color, anything many minorities at all? I may have just forgotten

00:33:01.780 - 00:33:25.830

it has not paid any attention because there was, this wasn't much, wasn't many. I just don't remember. We had some people from Asia Like the Arab country, two or 3 of those maybe. Um that's about it. And I didn't have any problems. We had two or

00:33:25.830 - 00:33:59.470

three from um CUBA at the time, no problems with any of them. They were treated just like anybody else. How did they feel about the christian beliefs compared to their communist beliefs? Um, best I can remember they were christian people. They went to, most of them

00:33:59.470 - 00:34:22.280

went to the baptist church. They were not, I don't know how long they have been here, but some have been here for years and years maybe I'm growing up here, but they were one time had lived in some of those countries. I don't remember any comments

00:34:22.280 - 00:34:45.540

on if there were any black students that wanted to get on campus at the time that you were there, what would the general opinion be at that time, they probably would've been against it totally against it. Probably that was the general feeling it's time. But I

00:34:45.540 - 00:35:03.750

don't know that there may have been some on the campus that I didn't know about. But I don't know. I just that's what the general feeling would have been. I think at the time. Um what kind of publications were on campus such as whether it was

00:35:03.750 - 00:35:31.990

there a newspaper? What kind of thing had the regular school paper that came out? Remember how often, once a week, once a month, probably. What it comes out now. How often come out now? Mm hmm. Probably about every month anyway. The same frequency I suppose. And

00:35:32.000 - 00:36:17.330

uh, that's the only publication I can think of except some of the fraternities had their publications. And uh, and then on campus, what forms of entertainment? What, what was there to do on campus? There wasn't a whole lot to do. Uh, except for the

00:36:17.330 - 00:36:41.100

usual campus activities such as your sports. That could take a lot of time. Oh and uh, you always go up to the student activity building. Play a few games of ping pong on the campus campus. I'm sure it was on the old campus. I just never

00:36:41.100 - 00:37:20.470

did even see anybody playing more than a game of ping pong now that I think about it. There was a ping pong table up there in the administration building. Oh, well then just get together and talking. That's about it. Few sports games. Were

00:37:20.470 - 00:37:51.730

there any famous people come by and talk to you? Such as people running for president. Senators, neighbors? None that I remember. There was always, um, somebody coming by during election time come to complication and they'd either give the whole program or just a few minutes of

00:37:51.730 - 00:38:18.340

it. But I don't remember any of them. Just the usual uh, 10 people a year that show up every time elections come around, who were the people running from mayor? Mostly people running for governor, governor or senator, House seats for the state or for the US

00:38:18.340 - 00:38:41.870

Senate Congress. I don't remember any presidential candidates coming to talk. They probably went to bigger campuses. I'm sure if they ever got to the Birmingham area, but we never had one. Was there anybody in your camp? You mean it? All too anything anybody might have become

00:38:41.880 - 00:39:30.100

famous? Not that I know of. Sorry about that infamous people. Yeah. Getting back to when you I had to sign up for registration. Um Was it pretty complicated at that time to pay the money? And did they mess up a lot since they didn't have computers

00:39:30.100 - 00:39:53.560

at that time? Were there many mistakes made on accounts? None that I know of. I always had my account through to the panting. Uh huh. Of course the accounts were smaller then and there weren't as many of them and they didn't have to. Well they did

00:39:53.560 - 00:40:11.610

have to fool with them two or three times a semester because we go pay on so they added much opportunity I guess to mess up on. But I don't remember any problems with the accounting system apparently worked pretty good. But I guess when they got to

00:40:12.610 - 00:40:34.960

to the place that um and the student body got big enough is when they decided to go with the computer. Probably less complicated than I do know, it got harder and harder to register each year. So many people. There are a lot more students, a lot

00:40:34.960 - 00:41:00.220

more classes and a lot more full classes when you get to them, rearrange schedules and go back to them all over again. Were there any unusual occurrences that happened on campus and strange things? Funny things? Not while I was there, Nobody in the classrooms ever. There's

00:41:00.220 - 00:41:28.760

nothing ever funny done as a joke. Maybe to a professor or maybe a professor played a joke on a student, not in the pharmacy department in any of my classes. Oh, I don't know about any others. What kind of styles were there at that time or

00:41:28.760 - 00:42:04.270

fads? The hair was short, anywhere from crew cut, normal short length hair, No long hairs at that time. I think like a beating. Oh, clothing was very much like it is now now the wild stuff. Just the standard clothing, blue jeans and clothes like that back

00:42:04.270 - 00:42:43.050

then on campus. Some blue jeans, mostly it was just dress pants. Sure the girls mostly wore dresses and skirts and blouse, They didn't wear as many on the men's pants as they do now? Oh, anybody ever come in with a mohawk? I never saw the mohawks

00:42:43.050 - 00:43:06.760

were around at the time have been, but not many. What would a student of the 50s think of a student of the 80s? I get the nut. What, what just A lot of the things that are done course the students 60s might be doing the same

00:43:06.760 - 00:43:38.230

thing today if he were in his position, to If you were looking from the 60s to the 80s. A lot of strange things go on. The hairstyles. Some of the clothing was worn. The beauty a lot different. So called you in the social life. What what

00:43:38.230 - 00:43:55.490

kind of music was mostly listen to? Was it the rock and roll of the 50s or big bands that were still going on in the 50s? Some of the big bands, but most people like the rock and roll. How about you? I like the big vans

00:43:57.080 - 00:44:33.580

much better. A few. Not much, but mostly it was the older stuff that was better. How many hours did you have to have for graduations? Same at that time. It's 128 hours I think that what is now. So it was the same amount of hours. What

00:44:33.580 - 00:44:58.210

would you have to do for graduation? What you have to prepare for it? We mean to prepare for it after you finished your, all your classes, Just getting ready to graduate. Want a whole lot to, it just, she had to rent your captain gown. Uh I

00:44:58.210 - 00:45:31.590

think there was a one practice uh, run through the graduation exercise which was held outside in the football stadium. And and then graduation night, everybody met in the auditorium in the gymnasium and left contamination out to the stadium and that's where the commencement exercises were. You

00:45:31.600 - 00:45:53.770

rented your graduation. You always read them at that time that I know of. I know they're buying them now but I don't know they're buying them at Sanford now. I think so. I don't know. What am I gonna do with them when they don't graduate again?

00:45:53.770 - 00:46:18.350

Problem. Well what was your feeling when you finally got that diploma? Glad to be over with? Why was it that bad? It was a lot of work I guess depends on how you go to school when you go into the education and get out or you're

00:46:18.350 - 00:46:40.970

going to have fun and you can do both but it's hard to do both and work full time. The presented juror diploma. Tell you. Was that the president dame. Do you remember? I don't even remember. I'm sure it was president of school and the school were

00:46:40.980 - 00:47:22.980

both there who actually handed over the diploma. I don't remember. And professors, were there any women professors? Several of them mostly. And music history, english departments. There's only one that I can remember that taught in the pharmacy department. She just talked pharmacy law. I don't know

00:47:22.980 - 00:47:46.110

if they still have that course or not. Probably worked in with some others that was the only one we had at that time. But most of them were men then. Which one would you have rather had men or women? I don't have a band. Why more

00:47:46.110 - 00:48:01.970

relaxed in the class? They don't take everything as seriously as some of the women do their feelings don't get hurt when things don't go exactly the way they anticipated all they do. The vendors might get mad and tell you to take off somewhere and then the

00:48:01.970 - 00:48:30.820

women little fits and carry on for a long time, about some little something and then coming back in, it's all over with women, remember forever. So the men just mm So the men were able to keep this pretty much better. There weren't any discipline problems at

00:48:30.820 - 00:48:56.650

the time anyway. Oh. Mhm. We all had attention in their classes. There was really no problem. There was the women a little bit more lenient things, but the only woman that I had was the one that taught us pharmacy. Of course, I never did have any

00:48:56.650 - 00:49:21.850

of the other women teachers that I can remember, may have had an english teacher. Oh, but they didn't have any trouble discipline either. The student body was pretty well disciplined. Just have something being that most of the ministers training, most of them were there with the

00:49:21.850 - 00:49:45.200

intention of getting an education and getting the deployment and going on about their life. They weren't there so much just to have fun and play around that probably had a lot to do with the fact that they were a bit older, probably playing around earlier. Speaking

00:49:45.200 - 00:50:07.140

of playing around where there are a lot of students that come one year and then drop the next year or you never saw him again after one year. Yeah there was a good good turnover but oh not all that much. Most of them that I started

00:50:07.140 - 00:50:38.240

with a pharmacy. We're all finished I guess. That may have been a third drop out over there few years. The first year there was a big drop out. How come what they want to do? Mom decided that it's harder than I thought it was going to

00:50:38.240 - 00:51:17.390

be. It's just gonna be fun and games. So even then Howard has had a reputation of being hard school academically. Oh a good many people did drop out wasn't all that much probably about what is today was suffered considered a middle class girl at that time.

00:51:17.860 - 00:51:52.860

High class or just a college for everybody. Most anybody. We're all kind of people. There were some rich ones and some poor ones and mom was in the middle but they were pick from a lot of different states. Lot of people came from Georgia Tennessee mhm

00:51:54.570 - 00:52:31.480

Mostly from the south Southern states surrounding Alabama. Yeah I don't remember my classes. I can't remember anybody from, they're far up north anyway there was some from in Virginia Kentucky A couple. I'm from taxis. Most restaurant was from the surrounding Southern states. How did people in

00:52:31.480 - 00:52:54.310

texas learn about university because it's not like the university of Alabama. Everybody knows where it is. I don't know. No idea how they happened to come here. Maybe they lived here before. Maybe their parents went to school there. Oh there's no telling but I don't know

00:52:54.320 - 00:53:21.240

personally about any of them how they found out about Howard Sanford. I know a lot of that came from Tennessee and Georgia. I came to the pharmacy school because of the pharmacy school's reputation myself pretty highly regarded at the time. So people came from a lot

00:53:21.240 - 00:53:50.860

of different places to get into pharmacy school there. But what was the public view Sanford was it, did most people consider what you have to be rich to go there? Like it is today today it's considered that you have to be upper middle class to get

00:53:50.870 - 00:54:21.040

there to be a student. It costs as much then as it does now percentages of your income. Oh at least I would think that it does because at that time it cost about the same to go to Howard and Sanford and live at home to go

00:54:21.050 - 00:54:49.020

to Auburn and live down there and pay all those expenses and that's about what it is today. It takes about the same amount of money. Either. What you doing? Well the time is pretty good when you're going money wise, no hardships. I mean I mean as

00:54:49.020 - 00:55:08.550

a as a country there wasn't too many hardships. No don't inflation was low or moderate best I can remember or either. It didn't concern me then. I don't know which it was. I don't remember being I know it wasn't like anything like it's been in the

00:55:08.550 - 00:55:49.570

last few years so money wise things were fairly stable, gasoline was 35 cents a gallon. That kind of pricing you could afford to drive to school without going broke were the prices in the bookstore. How are they? I thought they were pretty expensive then. Oh some

00:55:49.570 - 00:56:13.330

of the prices today are expensive books cost a lot of money apparently. But at that time we had a used used books were available more than they are now. Um A lot of the courses stayed the same for several years. Buy books from one year old

00:56:13.340 - 00:56:45.910

several years old. The prices weren't too bad on the bookstore had of course have a bit you know music. It wouldn't be all that much savings off a new book unless it was pretty well worn. But mostly most everybody you bought your books from somebody one

00:56:45.910 - 00:57:11.420

class ahead of them once in a while you have to buy me one time. Wasn't there a certain organization that would sell books? Nothing. Nothing. It was just in the bookstore made it hard to do anything with them. Then there's such a crowd in there always

00:57:11.420 - 00:57:37.530

a mob Always line up with 15 to 30 people in front of you. Imagine that way now. But if you sold your new book, your old books to the bookstore didn't get much of anything for. So most people seem to sell to the students because they

00:57:37.530 - 00:58:05.210

could get more for their book and students could buy them a lot less books were pretty good part of your total cops. Do you feel that Sanford prepared you well enough? The pharmacist. Mhm. As good as any school could have. So academics were in your opinion.

00:58:06.070 - 00:58:33.520

Yeah academically it was good. Um There's always things in in any course that you could I think there are things to be changed in any any curriculum basically. The academics were good. The courses were mostly well taught pretty well covered the subjects that we needed. Thank

00:58:33.520 - 00:59:12.290

you. You're welcome. This is an interview with Harris. We'd for the Sanford University oral history program by Preston. We'd at 32 69 Monte D'or drive Birmingham Alabama on this date November 10, 1985. Okay. What I need to get is your feelings towards Sanford when it was

00:59:12.290 - 00:59:29.890

Howard on camp? On the old campus. I need to find out what it was like on the old campus. Such as um what was your first impressions of of the old campus? How how did you get interested in going to Sanford because my cousin went to

00:59:29.890 - 00:59:49.150

Sanford and recommended it. What did he say to? Well there wasn't a whole lot of choice either. Going into pharmacy. You either went to Auburn went to Sam Howard and since Howard was here at home? That's why I went to Howard? How are your pharmacy classes?

00:59:52.460 - 01:00:18.470

How were they? Mhm. What were they like? What do you have to do like any other classes? Just go in and listen and studying. Just can't get out of it. Not necessarily any harder than any other. It's different. I'll plan that for you. I didn't have

01:00:18.480 - 01:00:39.350

too many electives at that time. Did they have them all pretty much lined out like they did today. Not today. I have more electives more going a year more now. You take more social studies type of course is how many years you have to go? Takes

01:00:39.350 - 01:01:06.130

five years now. How many did it take when you went to four when I went? They've increased that in the last few years. What kind of classes did you have to take? Well the first Year two More or Less? General Classes. Chemistry english, chemistry again. Travel

01:01:06.130 - 01:01:43.600

chemistry classes man. My so called elected was pE that's what it was several times. Not all allowed. That's basically what the classes were. No bringing up PE You were on the track team. Yeah. Just my first year. What year was 56. Good food. She heard you

01:01:43.610 - 01:02:14.880

draft water. Couldn't keep up joe win any. Not much. Were you ever on did you ever win anything? No I didn't practice enough. Why? Because of work takes a lot of it. Who's your coach? Coach? Foot? Howard? He's not there anymore. He's been gone for a

01:02:14.880 - 01:02:38.000

long time. He went into pharmacy school now? Center for you're on the track team at the Eastlake campus. But when you got to the howard, I mean to the new campus you weren't on track. That's when I had to start working Saturdays and that's when I

01:02:38.010 - 01:03:15.240

track meets were there on Saturdays. Hmm. Um, on the East Lake campus. What buildings were there? Um, not many. This administration building and an administration had math classes. Oh some english class is the best. I can remember several others. And you had the chemistry building. It's

01:03:15.240 - 01:03:50.130

just chemistry. Maybe physics was there and some biology. I wish you had the men's and women's dormitories which mostly were the old army if it was army or navy barracks. Way back across the football field with the many navy or army personnel is still there. They've

01:03:50.130 - 01:04:08.660

been gone a long time. That was World War Two supposes when they built those for. I'm not sure that that's what I understand it was done. So the dorms were just used for students at that time. I mean non military personnel. Oh yeah, just students using

01:04:08.660 - 01:04:37.750

them. Like the the women's dorm or just the men's dorm back there in the barracks. Do they have a student center? Not really, Not really just cafeteria. Just that area is the best. I remember places for or those type of games. It may have been, but

01:04:37.750 - 01:05:03.540

I don't remember. Most people seem to go down to the grocery store on the corner. I can't remember the name of it now, but that was the big hangout, but they must have had to have some pool or ping pong or something somewhere. I just need

01:05:03.550 - 01:05:30.200

every get to that. Did you live in any, I went back and forth every day. Um He said that you were on track team. Were you on any of the football teams or anything like that? Any involved in any other sport? They didn't at that time

01:05:30.200 - 01:05:53.710

they discouraged all pharmacy students from participating. They felt the workload was too heavy. Does that mean you couldn't or just encourage not to discouraged you mean you couldn't, it did take a lot of time because your labs were so like most of your labs are going

01:05:53.710 - 01:06:17.070

until sometimes four and five o'clock at night. How long did that last? Last? Four or five o'clock? I mean how many hours? 2 to 4 hours usually had several ways? Football practice would start at 3:00 or earlier. And it just wasn't a whole lot of ways

01:06:17.070 - 01:06:41.560

that you could get all your classes in and get into football practice too. What was the football team like? Mhm. My first year there, They may have won one. I don't remember what the outcome was. It was pretty bad. Uh But then the second year, so

01:06:41.570 - 01:07:07.060

when bobby bowden came from Georgia, I've recruited a few and I don't know what won lost records were, but Howard one, sometime he came a whole lot of games, they won most of the games ever season. You might lose one or two, maybe three. I don't

01:07:07.060 - 01:07:38.830

remember now. They had some good teams after that until he had to leave, went to florida football. Never was all that big when I was there. Anyway, there were a few hours you enjoyed going to the game bobby Bowden, come on. He started on the old

01:07:38.840 - 01:08:00.020

campus or the new, pretty sure it was a new campus when he came to the new campus would Have opened for the fall of 57. That's when we moved over there. I don't know if they had any summer classes or not before that I don't think

01:08:00.020 - 01:08:27.210

so. Everything moved over in the fall. Did you know about players who brought pretty well, I didn't know. Um because the players he brought came from Georgia. They were, he was at a junior college. He brought some players from there with good, I think he recruited

01:08:27.460 - 01:08:54.090

two mothers from there too. And then I had some good Birmingham area players takes a coach is interested in it. Little backing, get something done. How did you handle your first registration when you were fresh? What would procedures? It's long. I don't remember all the details

01:08:54.090 - 01:09:15.640

of registration except that it took quite a while to do it, wow. Seemed like we had, you have to pick up the classes you wanted and go to that particular class and okay, see if it was filled up, If it was, you could get it, you

01:09:15.640 - 01:09:37.810

didn't have to pull cards or not. That I remember we pull cards uh cards started later and back. I'm not sure whether we had cards at all before I finished. I think it's just you go to the professors uh table and register if it was open

01:09:38.520 - 01:10:01.020

with the computer card system didn't start till a bit later. So because of this, I would assume that there wasn't all that many students there to not have to have a card system. Do you know Like the total counting their night divisions and always around 2000

01:10:02.260 - 01:10:25.790

And maybe 1500 on campus at the most. I don't know if it was quite that many or not. 56, all around. It didn't go all that much. It was growing some, especially after moved over to the new campus. Nothing like it is. Now, what did you

01:10:25.800 - 01:10:49.060

have any close relationships with some of the professors I didn't like at all. Something like the whole lot. That's something like the whole lot. Real good people dr Winter I guess is one of the favorites. Sure it was a good teacher. Everybody was a good person

01:10:49.060 - 01:11:18.900

to help if you needed something. I had a problem. What class was he taught in pharmacy classes? Mostly. Chemistry have any just despised. No, understand you had some Trouble with one professor who had something against passing students. Oh I never did have him unfortunately. But this

01:11:18.900 - 01:11:45.010

was over the old campus. He was in the chemistry department and he had been failing Big%ages 2 or three years. Some of the students I knew were A and B students, there's no way they could have made efforts in a class like that. But today finally the

01:11:46.090 - 01:12:09.460

late let him go get rid of him somewhere another. I don't know how and what they had to do to him out Anybody. Any teacher that's failing 70-80 or 85% of the class is something wrong with the teacher and the class remember his name? Remember people

01:12:10.340 - 01:12:32.670

complaining something said uh they said a lot of things. Uh Not very nice things. And uh after all, they were paying good money to take a class from him and then for him to give him a grade that they didn't make. Oh he did get kicked

01:12:32.670 - 01:12:57.110

out. There's no room for teachers like that. How much was tuition fees per hour? Oh it was real expensive then. Huh? $15 an hour when I started and then when I finished it Still about 15. I don't know if it had gone up or not. Might

01:12:57.110 - 01:13:27.050

have gone a little bit what? You could pay a little bit of it down And the rest of the three monthly payments, no interest or anything. The school that's long gone now. Were you involved in any fraternities or clubs? Just professional fraternity, phi delta, which is

01:13:27.050 - 01:13:48.140

a pharmacy fraternity, service fraternity. Not related A. P. O. At all. No not really A P. O. Or not related to any other organization at all. Complete separate division of its own. Was it just kind of an honorary thing? Did you have meetings? No it was

01:13:48.140 - 01:14:21.300

an honorary, this was any pharmacy students to join. We had weekly meetings mostly for service projects such as C. One. one of the first times we gave polio shines to the majority of the students on campus and the professors And then she had to have three

01:14:21.300 - 01:14:38.990

album at the time. So we gave the one shot and then I've forgotten the time interval now but two months three months for some period of time later than we gave the second shot. And then six or eight months later or maybe the next year then

01:14:39.000 - 01:15:09.810

if I got the third one. And then about that time that came out with the oil polio vaccine. So we had that again and we gave the oral vaccine to most of the students because it gave additional protection. How much better was that? More than just

01:15:09.810 - 01:15:38.610

one, One kind of. Oh that's you could get it more than one way and you could get it by breathing. But another way that the vaccine that you took by injection didn't cover was an intestinal form and the one you took by mouth protected against that

01:15:38.620 - 01:16:04.440

form of polio virus too. So everybody's pretty well covered. All of them didn't take it. That's why I said the majority but everybody wanted I think we charged them 50 cents which was just about what it cost if that much. But walker drug company furnished all

01:16:04.440 - 01:16:25.450

the vaccine for us at at their cost. So it seems didn't stop anybody. But they just if they wanted fine they didn't they didn't have to. A lot of people didn't want the shots. So but uh I think we had more people taking the shots and

01:16:25.450 - 01:16:47.410

we're taking the oil vaccine because when we had the injections that's probably it was pretty bad then. But by the time the oil vaccine came out it had died down a whole lot because it had just stopped it. Not that I know of but I'm sure

01:16:47.410 - 01:17:11.930

they are not from what we gave them. But I'm sure there were people that had had polio that were on campus. You handle blood drives too, didn't you? Um No we never did sponsor blood drive that I can remember. Seems like the student council or a

01:17:11.930 - 01:17:39.550

P. O. Or somebody at those times as one of their regular projects. But we didn't get in, man. Yeah. How was the The student spirit on the campus on the one in East Lake compared to the one in his press location. Probably a little different. The

01:17:39.550 - 01:18:03.390

students on campus were older. Oh a lot of them had been in the korean war and we're just getting back and out of the army. So that put them several years older than the usual college age student. A lot of them were still hold over from

01:18:04.290 - 01:18:31.670

Being in the service in World War II and just coming around getting into college after finishing 15 or 20 years in the service. Uh huh. Average age at least in the pharmacy department was probably 27, 28, 29, which is pretty old for college students. And so

01:18:31.670 - 01:18:51.740

the, oh I guess you might, the spirit probably was there, but it was a little more calm than it would be with the younger ones. But most of them were married, had Children a little bit more settled down free to run around as much. But there

01:18:51.740 - 01:19:17.240

was still a lot of them that could, most of them work, but it got into the new campus. A lot of those people graduated the age dropped down when they were younger people. On average, the spirit was fine. I had a lot of uh good good

01:19:17.240 - 01:19:41.260

organizations. The sports program was good, not just like in football with other colleges, but the intramural sports, one fraternity against another and there's always games going on Most every day. You find two or 3 down football field somewhere playing some kind of One fraternity playing another

01:19:41.270 - 01:20:01.860

one organization. Are there any bad feelings going to a new campus? None that I know of. Everybody was glad to get to the new campus? As far as I can tell. New campus was. We gotta know what the old campus was like. I guess the building

01:20:01.860 - 01:20:27.600

of course were real old. The wood floors squeaked as she walked across. Ah the boards were worn, you could tell where they had worn thinner and they were hot. Only a few places had air conditioning. The old campus, mostly some of the officers but the new

01:20:27.600 - 01:20:45.850

campus was completely air conditioned. All brand new. Real nice, extra clean, plenty of room. What brain? Even though there were only a few buildings completed at the time. But for students we had that was planning what buildings were there on the new campus When you got

01:20:45.860 - 01:21:14.210

there, they finished the pharmacy building which is ingles hall now and they had I finished all or almost finished the administration. I can't remember just for sure about that but I think it was finished and they had the one of the women's dormitories finished. I think

01:21:14.210 - 01:21:28.110

they had one of the men storms finished up. They were getting ready to start work on the the library or may have already had some of the foundations and all down. I don't remember just how far along they were on the end but it was a

01:21:28.110 - 01:21:57.420

while before they finished their and that was a cafeteria. Also the student activity building. Best to remember that was about all of them. Football stadium wasn't finished. They were working on the football field at the time. The Germination one finished right? And then they finished the

01:21:57.430 - 01:22:29.370

biology building after a year or so. Don't remember just waiting on that. That was about it as far as I can remember, finished. Wasn't a whole lot of buildings but they were big buildings as compared to the east campus and a lot more room. Was the

01:22:29.380 - 01:22:59.180

chapel built at that time where you have chapel chapel in the library. Um I believe it's up on the second floor um where they had plays and other drama presentations. I think that was on the second floor. But I don't remember for sure. I thought you

01:22:59.180 - 01:23:20.430

said that the library hadn't been built at that time or they just put down the foundation. Well they were starting some of it. I remember just watch stage of completion. It was in uh they must have had must have some of it finished or we we

01:23:20.430 - 01:23:48.910

couldn't have chapel there. I just don't remember how much but it wasn't completed library anyway at the time but they were working. I don't remember just when how was the procedure chapel run? Um All students were required to attend. I think you could miss two or

01:23:48.910 - 01:24:15.520

3 semester or two or 3 a year. But other than that you will be there. It usually was about 45 minutes long there and they with different types of programs. Um This album. Just a preacher too. What you have on a sunday morning, more of a

01:24:17.830 - 01:24:42.100

um information type programming like at a convention or something. Sometimes they were really interesting and sometimes they could come close to putting you to sleep just like any other, but you were required to be there anyway. I think there were some exceptions if there were reason

01:24:42.100 - 01:25:03.350

if somebody worked or something. I don't think they had to go if they had to leave camp and go to work or had a good reason. They didn't excuse too many people. There were two or 3 that didn't graduate. Uh one year but they didn't go.

01:25:03.520 - 01:25:20.990

They missed her one or 2 times too many. They were trying to crack down on it. I would imagine that got everybody's attention. So those who didn't graduate, they go to a whole another semester without taking any classes, but just going to convo I really don't

01:25:20.990 - 01:25:41.330

know what they did. No idea what kind of punishment they had hang out for that. They probably had to come for that. I don't think they would have to come for classes if they already had all their hours or they may have given them something else

01:25:41.330 - 01:26:08.450

they had to do in place of it. No, they didn't graduate. How often did you have chapel? What days? We just watch away? I don't remember when, but at the same time have a week. Just once a week. I don't remember. I think so