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Hey this is an oil interview before the Sanford University oral history with the bath at Mr Bancroft House on november 14th 1985. Okay. Mr Mr Bancroft I'd like to tell me. Well where y'all originally from? Well I'm from Birmingham. Born in Birmingham and he was born

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in in Alabama. Mr Mankoff. How old were you when you moved to Birmingham? Three years old. My daddy was a doctor. It was an M. D. And he was practicing medicine in the country and decided he wanted to come to Birmingham Medicine. Okay. Could y'all tell

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me the high schools y'all attended? We both started out paul ain't high school Central High school broke down in junior high paul lane was junior high. And then when Woodlawn High School opened up we both went there. All right. Um Could you tell me the the

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year you entered Howard and maybe reflect on the reasons you you went to Howard? What attracted you to go there? Miss Bancroft want you go well we lived out here in the slave and my sister had gone to Howard. It was pretty close to where we

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lived and we are Methodists. But that didn't matter to the baptist school and loved it. And you went to Howard. I went to Howard New scholarship. I was prospective athletes and that had a lot to do with me getting a new scholarship to Howard college. Okay.

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Did did you? I've talked to some people, do you know Dr Sharman? I talked to Dr Sharman. And he said that when he was coming into college you got came for a week from high school to have like a little trial, Did you go through that

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process? So you just came? Okay, alright. Could y'all remember exactly or just a little bit about what registration was like, you know how you registered for classes and where you went to do that? I think we just um went to the office. Benny Spink was registered

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us, she was a registrar, registrar and just kind of signed up, we want again decided that we wanted and I took the premed course, my daddy was a doctor and my brother was studying medicine, so I took the premed course just trying to stay in line

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with that, but I had to give it up later on mentally, I wasn't capable of meeting, cutting, busted in the, in the medical field. I understand that, that's the way I am. Um let me ask you all about, do you remember a lot about the, tell

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us a little bit about the faculty and how the students and the faculty have their relationship. Was it was closer or with the students away from the faculty to the faculty? Help the students at all? Oh, I think it was a very close relationship and all

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the faculty that I came in contact with, very helpful and you know, just good friends and they did all they could to help us. How about you? Mr Kraft? Is that? Yeah, that's the way it was. Of course, one professor differed from another. You felt closer

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to one and you did another for various reasons. Uh Because I I felt a whole lot closer to dr break field because he was the science had the science department and I was mentioned in the science field I felt closer to him than anybody because I

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spent probably spent more time over there. So that's the way I feel that's the way I am. Um Well do you remember what the cafeteria food was like or the setup, how y'all went to eat and where there wasn't any cafeteria, all the meals that were

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served in college was the dormitory on the campus for those who lived in the dormitory. So but they were down on secondary New South. There was a little sandwich joint down there called Duck in Duck in and that's where we got our new noonday meal and

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then we go home just like going to high school, we go home for the night. Uh Mr Bancroft first. I'll ask this question to you then I'll ask a kind of a different question but about the same subject. Uh Could you tell me a little bit

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about the game day preparations? Like when you when you played football? Howard? How um about like what time you had to, not exactly what time but around what time you had to come in for the game and what y'all did that, y'all's exercise or what what

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did you exactly do before the game? Not living in the dormitory And I just stayed home time. Time to go get dressed to go play the ball game. I guess that the dedication of the stadium, that big big game and dedicated to ST stadium 1928. We

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had a lunch at the school itself. We all went, went together out there. Yeah. In the same bus. The 1st 1st game. Well Mr Bancroft, how did did you go to a lot of the, did you go to the football game sponsor sponsor when he was

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a freshman he was captain of the team, Captain chose the sponsors and I was a freshman sponsor for the big game. Howard bring him? So that was the big game. And then the next two years of sophomore and junior year, The team chose me as a

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maid and then the senior year again he was captain of the senior team and I was sponsored again. Then that's the game that they dedicated legion field 1928 came out in that big football red blue balloons flying up in the air and opened the door and

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let me step out. It was really good. So um what would the a lot of students participate in the games? Really got excited thinking they had a parade downtown you know before the game because of that rivalry. Right. Um Did you did you play a berry

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field barry field at Howard? Do you know who that was named after? Yeah. W barry was one of the alumnus of the school gave the money for renovating the old old field. And they had a ball diamond up behind the college up there and then he

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just cut off the hill and filled it in and and made a real athletic field, a baseball field and a football field. Is that field a real nice field or was it? Yes, he got it fixed. It was and everything else. Tell me a little bit

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about the Greek system back in the 1928 through. Well when you were in school, tell me a little bit about the Greek system, how they participate in things where they there was rivalry of course between the facts and and this is you know uh But um

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we had about six fraternities and six sororities I think something like that. And he was a sick new out of the delta zeta and the single news and the delta taters both put on plays and they had, what is it you are usually did. New father

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new father. We borrowed all the dancing girls and had a father sold tickets and use it use it auditorium at high school. They had dances you know and house parties and everything. Well you know I was a sigma Nu didn't I told you I was a

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signal. Yes sir. I'm a signal. I 11 40 initiate. 11 43 53 60. That's great. That is. I knew you, I knew that the last time I came over, but I didn't get to slip. Don't slip you the grip. I didn't get to slip into you

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when they came in. Let's get back to our questions here. Um So the greek system really was involved in in the like during the games. They they sit together during the football game. I don't know if they sat together too much. Did they make signs? And

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she wouldn't know because she was always on the bench. Made or sponsor. Now, what else did the sponsor do? Did she? Well, you know, in the parade was faded all along the way. And when we got out there to do something else, Mr Bancroft. I read

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in the Crimson's, I was reading a couple of weeks ago in the Crimson that howard played at the University of Miami one year. And then after that game you went over to CUBA and the University of Havana. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

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Was that pretty exciting? Yeah, Well, we went down to the University of Miami when it was brand spanking new. We beat them 55 right? Uh Got the way I'd uh I'd go into a huddle and I'd say now I'm gonna run. Run right and you guys

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go left tackle, keep keep running up the score. And then after we went from Miami to CUBA, we got over there and warm up out there kicking, you know, getting ready for the ball game. And uh Cuban university came over there, you know and fellow came

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to a little help please. You know what I read that? I read that. That's a quote. You have a quote in the Crimson. I read that just the other day and it turned out that he had been to maryville College and Tennessee. Really? And that's that's

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the team that went back there. That's the team that Sanford just beat this past week. I just played So did y'all when you got finished playing in Miami, did you take a boat trip over? Yeah boat over to CUBA trip back. How was that? Was that

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exciting? Was that pretty exciting? It was for most of us had never seen outside the land. Um Let's see what I'm asking something about that. How about telling me, can you remember just think about your most memorable game as a player at at Howard? I see.

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Yeah, I guess about most memorable game that I played was against Oglethorpe. They had just tied Georgia Tech and we played them over here and I've forgotten what the score was. And uh we beat them after they tied Georgia tech. Okay. You know what year did

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you graduate from home, 1928? Mr. You graduated 27? Yeah, she's a little smarty pants. I did it three years. What did you do after you graduated, started teaching what school? Well I was assigned to begin with the top down here Kennedy in public schools? But you

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know from a big family and my mother and daddy didn't even know I was doing it in three years until the last year they had other Children to put through school and family. Nine Children. How are you in the fourth? 1/4. Let me ask you something

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about your teaching as you were in college. Did you did you practice teach did you? Where did you do that? Well we didn't practice teach going to a school like they do now. What did you do have classes up there? If you want to know I

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taught french up there one summer at Howard College. That was my practice really. Yeah. And now they put you in the school for a wholesome. Yeah you do that but not then. But that was my practice teaching teaching french freshman coming to Howard. Um Mr Bancroft

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you when you graduated, what did you do after you graduated playing professional ball signed the contract with Birmingham and got a little money on the side for signing and they sent me to Montgomery? I That season in 1928. The company now. What what league was in

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that southeastern? And did you play for the you play for the bearings also after that? I was with, What position did you play? Second base play that I was a catcher in college And after signed with the made an infield right up and I wound up

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at second base when you play for the parents. How many years did you did you do that? Four years. Four years. Did you did you also did you do that during the summers when you when you assist your assistant coach at Howard? Oh, I usually went

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out, played semi pro ball someplace good in school. That's just no. Uh and in 1928 when you became an assistant coach at Howard, is that right around And let's see what year was it? Uh 1935 when you were hired as a head coach. Right, okay. But

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the year before that was when when uh Coach Shorty approaching, how you, how you pronounce approached and he was the coach there for one year. Uh could you tell I hadn't, I didn't get to read a lot about him, Could you tell me a little bit

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about how he coached, what was his philosophy, how his philosophies were defensive coach or pro? He was, I don't just have to have to say it. He was not very sick successful in the coaching field because yeah, he could not get his ideas across to the

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players. He was a great big guy. You know, I saw a picture of you and him in the Crimson. He is a pretty pretty big guy. How tall, how much, how about how tall was he? 6666. That's pretty tall. Now he stayed one year and then,

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and then you were selected as ahead countries. That a surprise to you or did you? Yeah, I guess it was a surprise. Barry was instrumental in getting that job. He was one of the trustees. Yes, he was instrumental in getting there. But then that and we

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have some pretty good ballplayers at college at that time. I didn't have to do much except just kind of head to head in the right direction. I'm sure you did more than that. Yeah, norman was one of the boys on that team bank. Did you uh,

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could you tell me a little bit about equipment? I know today equipment is just, you know that your pads and equipment you wear is just, you know, spend so much money on that. How did you all go about getting your equipment for the team? Was that

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funded by the school? But they got, they bought it. I know uh, I had a helmet that I got and I played it with Woodlawn high school. It was just a little leather thing with little cotton inside. It felt padding inside. And I wore that. Of

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course I couldn't get one of these new head just fit me had a p head and couldn't get a big head to fit me more than it was like they were just beginning to put the foam rubber inside a hard helmet. I can't imagine wearing a,

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you know, I played football in high school and I played at Alabama for a couple of years and I just can't imagine having not having a big old thick past on top of your head had some hard licks out there. Um Well I guess uh your

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first year of high word was probably one of your most memorable right? With famous game that all of us still talk about at Sanford when you tied Alabama 7-7 coaching. Could you kind of just reflect on that? Tell us about how a little bit about how

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exciting that was. Y'all played in tuscaloosa right? Well yeah, we played well we went down there and played Tuscaloosa alright. And I had fortunately I had enough boys to have two teams. And what I did was one team played on defensive, y you see, and then

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take about and put the other in the whole team in. You see the whole team, the rest of them, we got the ball and I put my best offensive team back in there we go from there. But juggling back and forth and I kept my team

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fresh off did because it was hot and I did that. I know it did. I just want you to tell me it did did it bring a lot of publicity to the school at the time? Yeah, it was on the wires all over the country because

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they just Alabama had, they played and he was the biggest player for him because he made the mistake, what did, what did you do, do, what thereby, you know, he was your best player? Yeah, yeah, He just didn't do anything really, kind of just just was

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there. Right. Um that's funny a while ago when you were saying you're, you sent your, you had two teams because and you know, a lot of times during the 1970s when coach Bryant had those winning seasons, that's what he did all, he had always had a

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fresh players. That's interesting that you maybe he learned that from you getting beat that when I'm getting tired that day. Um we still talk about that, we tied Alabama and when I told a couple of my fraternity brothers, I was coming over to interview you and

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I told him, you know that you were the coach at Howard when Howard tide Alabama really, can I go with you? I think you better go, let's see. Okay, yeah, I was wondering what was your, what was, what year was your last year head coaching job

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at Howard was You were there? You coasted Howard 11 years that no, but you were there for 11 years and change Presidents dr Neil was let out about that time and uh huh that was the guy's name was Pittsburgh, Ramsey, High school president College Major Major

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Davis and he wanted Bill White who was his high school coach over there as coach at the college? I got the gate. Um, what did you, where did, where did you go after after you coach. Howard? What did you do after that? I uh, What did

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I do right after that? I tried real estate and insurance and that kind of thing. I didn't do any good. And so I finally just broke down and said I won't go back in high school coaching and about that time the Anderson high school job came

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open and I made application, got the job that I stayed up there 12 years. That's right. We talked about that last time I want to ask you what was, I don't know if you know if you step sing, Do you know what steps seeing is? Sanford

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Steps just called Step sing. This is that Sanford now they have a program. It's called Step sing and all the organizations get together and do a show on the stage and I was just wondering if you didn't have anything like that. Everything was separate that way

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had to play and Sigma Nu's had a father. That's right. The signal follows. What? Where did you know the signal? He's had a house right on the first campus. Cause I saw a picture on the campus. No, it was not far from the campus, but it

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was down on 2nd Avenue. What did you, did you pledge your pledges to the fraternity for your first year at Howard? Yeah, my brother was, went ahead of me. He, he was a, what was it? And you place your first year. Two older sister was devastated.

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We didn't do it on our own. Yeah. My brother was a podcast and I'm podcast to find I went against what he was but I know I picked the best and we always tease each other about that. Now last time I was here, did y'all say

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that this this this row was used to be a housing for for Howard? What are you talking about? No. Uh it's a spring right up here at the head of this. It's called, This was known as college Springs. Howard got the water from this spring down

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to the dormitory, which is I guess you know what? That's right. How states? This was a very developed us all up. That's the W barry, that film was named after. But that didn't mean it has. The students had the girls dormitory down second Avenue where the

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eastern hospital has been. That was the girls dormitory and it was next door to his home place and then the boys down on the campus. Renfro hall. What what brought you back to Birmingham after Aniston? Did you just did y'all just move here after? We just

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wanted to come back to Yeah, we wanted to come back home. No, so we did and we both went into teaching. He bought about, went on high school And I kept on with my first grade first grade for 29 years time. I got my master's degree.

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Yeah, from the University of Alabama did, what year were you at Long as the Voice. Remember Until we came back in 58 and you were made boys advisor I guess in the spring of 59 Was here, you were there for 12 years or 13 years. You

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retired in 71 Sam. My dad went way long and he went also went with my mom and and he also went to Howard, but he was at Howard in 58. So he was from long before Mr Bancroft got there. There's some other things I want to

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ask about the football team. Look at this, what y'all, how y'all practiced? And did you practice every day or? Oh yeah, we practiced every day during the season and we had a little spring practice in No, you did have a spring trying in practice. That's when

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we kinda molded our teams in the spring. You see when we got ready to open the season next year, open with Alabama. So we had to be ready to have some kind of team ready. How many, how many boys? How many guys men did you have

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out for the team every year? About what happened? 22-25, something like that. Really. There was like the number number now, like 50 or 60 for a high school team and then up in the hundreds for college now. I really don't know how many Sanford has now?

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It's at least 60, 70 of course. Uh College couldn't couldn't afford to pay for the meal. A bunch of lots of, you know, and a number of our players were local, local people lived here in the city and just got academic scholarship. No. Mr I was

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gonna tell you, we still have the records, the The records from all the meetings, signaling meetings from. So we have the role, the 1900 role, the role of the men that were there in the 1900s. And we have the you know the recorders, minutes of the

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meetings from around 19 hundreds to the 1935. We still have those books and in fact I took them to the library to have them photocopy and they're they're closed. Nobody else can see them unless it's a sigma nu just in case something happens to those, you

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know if those books burned up and nobody ever had them photocopied or you know on file with the uh library, uh you know, nobody ever see them again. So I had had those done. So if you ever you know if you ever want just want to

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go back and look what happened, uh there's the lady's name is Miss Wells at the library and she she'll let you see them but you know that I'm sure They went to about 1935. So I'm sure some of the meetings you were in our written down

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in there. What did you have an office in the fraternity and the fraternity? Did you have an office for you officer? No, I wouldn't, I didn't have time to be one. I had too much to do. It does take a lot of time. But you know,

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we had our meetings at night on Monday night, we have ours on Sunday nights after certain about what we have them at 9:00. Everybody make sure that the church, well like I said, sometimes these interviews last, you know, it's a good two hours and sometimes the

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last 45 minutes and you know, it depends on how it goes. I think ours went real good though and I appreciate y'all, you know, letting me into your house and let me talk to you because it's really interesting for, you know, a guy like me going

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through school now getting to talk to y'all and let you know, I get to learn about the history of the school I'm going to, you know, And it's interesting to hear about, you know, when Howard tied tied Alabama and something that's been going on for six,

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something's been talked about for 60 years. You know, it's still being talked about and it's kind of like, Well he's 81 and I'm about 79, you don't act like you're that. Oh yeah, I really don't. Well I'm not gonna say things are so different, you know

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from then and now that it's hard to picture really where we were coming along. Have you been to the other campus lately? Yeah we work there. Yeah. Yeah. Did you did you know that? They beat last week? They beat the team from Tennessee? What was the

00:32:57.970 - 00:33:13.660

name Mary? But they beat them 35-29 last weekend. 1st 1st 1 of the season They're they're working really hard. I think they're gonna be you know a couple 55 or six years will be in good shape. You know when you start a program over again from

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what it was. You know when they quit the program it was a good program. They had some winning winning seasons. When you start over again with no scholarships or anything. It's kind of hard to start over. Well this concludes our interview with mr MS Bancroft